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I'm a stuck trucker. Dell 1521 - rookie install
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  1. #1
    Sam2 Guest

    Arrow I'm a stuck trucker. Dell 1521 - rookie install - Progressing...

    Vista has motivated me to switch to Linux. I found Fedora 8 on a magazine rack, and promptly became confused.

    Partitions scare me. I verified the media, and started several times, to do the install, from DVD 64 bit version.

    I used vista to partition the hard drive, then, booted from the DVD. I tried the Custom option, but get an error message:
    - (/) Root partition not defined.

    I had earlier tried to: Use Free Space on selected drive & create default layout.

    Error = Could not allocate requested partitions
    - Partitioning failed - Could not allocate partitions as Primary partitions
    Not enough space left to create partitions for boot.

    -- Root partition (/) not defined

    There is a long box with 4 sections:
    Above the box:
    Drive /dev/sda/ 152625 MB (Model: ATA Samsung HM160HI)

    I do not understand what Fedora is saying.
    The partitions:
    sda 2 (1024)
    sda 3 82152 MB
    Free 57595 MB
    s2 - This is the far right side of the partition box, and is too small to read. When I click on it, the lower line, in the ?format box below, is highlighted over:
    dev/sda 5, with a file type Vfat - size is 2559.

    Like this:

    1dev/sda 4
    - dev/sda 5, with a file type Vfat - size is 2559

    I've looked around, and can't figure out what to do, to avoid killing the vista install.

    I've tried to understand the Linux Identity Kit, that packaged the DVD, but it leaves me confused, at this point.

    FWIW, On Friday, I recommended Linux to some 300 business, large and small. I gotta get this going, before they start asking for help and guidance.
    Last edited by Sam2; 10th April 2008 at 07:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hello.

    FWIW, I don't think 300 businesses would listen to someone who doesn't have a clue about his recommendations.

    Secondly, as this is far serious than a simple help thread, you should start reading in the ReadMeFirst subforum as a precaution/preparation for potential support question you might have to answer soon. I assure you that after reading the first 1/8 of the info presented in there this thread might soon be irrelevant to you.
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  3. #3
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    I would recommend you start in the installation help forum http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6

    Once you read up there a little, please give us a more information - how exactly did you partition your hard drive? My recommendation would be leave Vista on one partion and then install Fedora on the other partition - let anaconda decide how to set up your partitions on the free space (much easer - and the default is pretty good). I would also use the latest F8 "respin" cd rather than using the cd you got in a magazine. I had a heck of a time installing the first cut of F8 - but I think the latest respin is pretty good. The Bit Torrent versions are located here: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ - stay away from rawhide or F9 - you aren't ready to be a beta tester!

  4. #4
    Sam2 Guest
    Thank you, for replying.

    Nokia, I've already had a call from a lady at one of the larger companies. It was clear that I was going to spend the learning time on Linux, rather than Vista, so I'm not expected to be an expert.

    It was more of an attitude toward Microsoft.

    fhubers, thank you for the link. I've been all over the web, from here to craigs list discussion forums, looking for answers.

    Time is an issue, and I am fairly over-whelmed. Most of what I've seen, is in technical terms, including what I've seen here. I just don't know the terminology.

    To set the partion, I right-clicked on My Computer, and selected the option to Manage. Then, selected Storage - Disk Management. Right click on a partition, for an option to expand or shrink the partitions.

    I saw the reference to do that, while looking for answers.

    It now shows 5 partitions, with 56.25 GB of Un-Allocated space, in a graphical interface. C: has about 80 GB allocated.

    I'm reluctant to download a respin, since I use Verizon Wireless EVDO, for all internet access. Verizon gets a little touchy, when you approach 5 gigabytes, per month, so I try to conserve where I can.

    I appreciate the suggestion, though.

  5. #5
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    Dell laptops are tricky to repartition for Linux, mainly because they generally come with 3 pre-installed primary partitions and one (small) extended partition (So you can't install another primary partition)

    The small sda5 partition at the end of the drive is the mediadirect partition, it's used to play music, movies etc using the media keys without booting the laptop into windows. It's the only logical partition in the extended partition (sda4 in fdisk)

    The problem is this, you resized the main vista partition correctly, but now Fedora can't use the free space because 3 primary partitions and an extended already exist on the drive (4 primary or 3 primary + 1 extended is a legacy limit on pc disks)

    The three primary partitions are:
    sda1 - A utility tools partition (Dell Diagnostic Tools)
    sda2 - Recovery partition
    sda3 - Vista OS partition

    So you need to delete the mediadirect partition sda5 and then you can resize the extended partition sda4 to fill the free space (Do this from Vista's Disk Manager)

    Now you can install Fedora in the extended partition. If you want mediadirect reinstalled, do not use all the free space when you install Fedora, leave a few gig at the end to allow reinstallation of mediadirect (You should have a disc for doing this with your laptop)

    This is exactly the procedure I followed on a Dell Inspiron 1520 recently. I will give you more help if needed.

    If you install grub on the mbr of the disc then you will need to manually edit grub.conf after boot up in Fedora to show the Vista options

    Code:
    title Vista Boot Loader
    rootnoverify (hd0,2)
    chainloader +1
    (Yes, it actually is (hd0,2) - Dell has two small partitions before that - One with utility tools and another recovery partition)

    If you install grub on first sector of /boot then you need to get EasyBCD for Vista and add the location of the /boot partition (Note I would just put /boot in the root partition /, and not use lvm - it's pretty pointless in this scenario)
    Last edited by sideways; 4th April 2008 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Sam2 Guest

    Arrow

    Edit, a day later, for brevity and clarification, with edited parts in Bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by sideways
    Dell laptops are tricky to repartition for Linux, mainly because they generally come with 3 pre-installed primary partitions and one (small) extended partition (So you can't install another primary partition)

    Now you can install Fedora in the extended partition. If you want mediadirect reinstalled, do not use all the free space when you install Fedora, leave a few gig at the end to allow reinstallation of mediadirect (You should have a disc for doing this with your laptop)

    This is exactly the procedure I followed on a Dell Inspiron 1520 recently. I will give you more help if needed.
    Thank you, sideways. I apologize for being so dense, taking so long to reply and being a little redundant. I'm rolling with the punches, so to speak.

    I'm having a hard time understanding what I've said above, as well as following your post.

    Screen shots of the computer management screen and a close up of the partitions, are below.

    Some confusion may derive from the differences in presentation, from vista and Fedora.

    It has been a few days, since I've booted from the DVD, but as I recall,
    I need to add a root partition (./), and
    I had fear that Fedora would over-wright Vista, before I knew what was happening.

    I'll return later, to boot the DVD, and may edit this post.

    As I understand it, on Disk 0:
    the sda5 partition in Fedora, is same as the far right partition, in Vista (2.5 GB Healthy Primary).
    And, is this the one I should delete, prior to booting from the DVD?

    Fedora shows the partitions:
    sda 2 (1024... ) - Recovery partition (Can't see everything.)

    sda 3 82152 MB - Vista OS partition

    Free 57595 MB - This is where Fedora will go, I presume.
    Originally, I thought this was the Vista partition.

    s2 - (s above 2)
    Fedora show s2, in the far right side of the partition box, and the box is too small to show everything.
    When I click on it, the lower line, in the ?format box below, is highlighted over:

    dev/sda 5, with a file type Vfat - size is 2559.

    Like this:
    1dev/sda 4
    -dev/sda 5, with a file type Vfat - size is 2559 - to be deleted?





    I was also confused about Grub. I've never tinkered with the MBR, and I'm fearful. Seems I saw a reference about this, regarding the do and the don't, in reference to the MBR and the root.

    I'll show you a picture of my truck, when we get done with this part of my learning curve.
    Thanks, again.

    On booting from the DVD, I get to the partition table, I select the Free Space, to Edit:

    A pop up asks add a partition, starting with a Mount Point.
    The options are:
    / /boot /home /tmp /var /usr/local /opt

    File system shows ext3.

    I chose /
    This produced an error:
    An unhandled exception has occurred. This is most likely a bug. Please save a copy of the detailed exception and file a bug report...

    I hit debug:
    Raise Partition Error, {"Could not allocate cylinder-based partitions as primary partitions. \n\n%s"} % msg
    {Pdb}.

    My confidence just had an up-tick, so I think I'm about ready to delete the mediadirect partition sda5, from Vista.
    Last edited by Sam2; 6th April 2008 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Clarification

  7. #7
    Sam2 Guest
    Bump following editing.

  8. #8
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    Ok sam2 you're on the right track, you need to do this (from Vista)

    1.Select the 2.50 GB partition at the end of the drive and delete it
    2.(I forget the right-click menu options for this part exactly) Now you should be able to create a new partition filling all the unallocated space (~59mb) (don't format it)

    This will be now be an empty extended partition in which you can install fedora. The install disc should be able to detect this.

    If you still have problems, post back, I'll go back through my vista logs and try to be more precise. I'm a pretty experienced linux user and I found this quite tricky, so don't feel dumb or anything, dell are the dumb ones in the way they partition the drive.

  9. #9
    Sam2 Guest
    Hi, sideways.
    Dog gone its good to see you right here, right now.

    I right click on the Free Space, which showed up, after deleting the partition.
    The only options are: New Simple Volume, or Delete Partition.

    I right click on the UnAllocated partition:
    The only options are: New Simple Volume, or Properties.

    There doesn't seem to be a way to reSize either partition, from Vista.

    I did not reBoot, before or after I deleted the small sda5 mediadirect partition.

    If I delete the UnAllocated Partition, will this automatically assign the 56.25 space to the Free Space Partition, or one of the other partitions?

    Not sure which way to turn, again...

    Edit to add screen shots:



    Last edited by Sam2; 6th April 2008 at 10:53 PM.

  10. #10
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    Isn't there an option to resize the free space to fill the unallocated space, I'm sure that's how I did it. I'll have access to a Vista machine later on today so I'll load up Disk Management and refresh my memory.

    In any case, if you delete the unallocated partition it should all show up as free space and you can create an extended partition in the free space. NB it must be an extended partition, since fedora needs at least two partitions (swap & /) and you only have room for one more primary partition on that disk. If you create an extended partition then you can create lots of partitions in that extended partition for fedora & other OSes (The partitions are called logical partitions, sorry if it's a bit confusing)

  11. #11
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    Hi i dont wish to but in,but i have the exact same laptop, you might find it easier once you have your free space to not partition it but let the install disk(fedora) use the free space and let it do the partitions for you,(it gives you the choice). also you might find it still wont work as it cant install in the mbr (grub),
    What i did was just reinstall with the dell operating system disk (if you have one) deleting all other parttions first, it gives that choice, then shrink the partition, then install fedora in the free space, however you will lose the recovery partition.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse
    Hi i dont wish to but in,but i have the exact same laptop, you might find it easier once you have your free space to not partition it but let the install disk(fedora) use the free space and let it do the partitions for you,(it gives you the choice). also you might find it still wont work as it cant install in the mbr (grub),
    What i did was just reinstall with the dell operating system disk (if you have one) deleting all other parttions first, it gives that choice, then shrink the partition, then install fedora in the free space, however you will lose the recovery partition.
    That is another option, but it's possible to do it without removing the dell partitions. I prefer this since I need to let other (non linux) people use the laptop and may want to give it away in it's original store condition (Though personally I can't stand Vista, or Dell's MediaDirect for that matter)

    If you don't mind deleting the dell partitions then your method is certainly the easier option.

  13. #13
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    Hi sideways, no i couldnt on mine, i may be wrong here but i think you can only have 4 primary partitions on on disk.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse
    Hi sideways, no i couldnt on mine, i may be wrong here but i think you can only have 4 primary partitions on on disk.
    Yes that's true. Which is why the fourth partition here has to be an extended partition. This is exactly how I installed Fedora on a similar Dell with same partitioning scheme. I was able to just resize the extended partiton at the end of the drive (the 2.5GB one containing mediadirect) after deleteing mediadirect and resizing OS (the vista partition), I did it all from Vista Disk Manager, then inserted F8 install disk and had it create an ext3 / partition (containing /boot too) and a swap partition inside the extended partition.

    I then installed WInXP after that, also in the extended partition, and I will probably install some 64bit distros and F9 on top of all that.
    Last edited by sideways; 7th April 2008 at 11:13 AM.

  15. #15
    Sam2 Guest
    I would rather avoid a re-Install of the Dell system and partitions.
    I don't trust myself that much, and can't afford the time...

    I mis-spoke toward the end of my last post.
    There is no option to delete the unallocated partition.

    The Free Space options are:
    - New Simple Volume
    - Delete Partition.

    The unllocated options are:
    - New Simple Volume
    - Properties.

    There doesn't seem to be a way to reSize either partition, from Vista.

    I don't know what it would do, to make a New Simple Volume, in the unAllocated partition.

    Sorry for the confusion, and I have absolutely no clue why this cursor arbitrarily jumps to a new location for no apparent reason.
    vista....

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