Fedora Core future enhancements?

[martin.sourada]

Recently I went through some threads that made me think about such things like community, fedora and linux future and like things... It was the threads complaining about fedora, usually needlessly The very thread that moved me to write this I did not liked at all, it was but a quite interesting reading, however. So what is on my mind?

I, as anyone in the fedora community, want to have stable, friendly and working system, composed mainly from FOSS. There are certainly many things to improve, to add or to just start think of. Just instead of saying: 'this is crap', or: 'fedora 6 is not ready for release', or any other non-constructive criticism, I want to say: 'I miss this very program in fedora, is it possible to add it to extras?', or 'I would like this and that feature in fedora', or any other suggestions of how to improve fedora (and linux consequently).

So, anyone, if you have any suggestions about the future of fedora, about importing a program, about some valuable feature, etc. please feel free to discuss it here. I think that user community is one of the best sources of ideas about future development. And if we create a good source of ideas here, we can propose the ideas to fedora people or even try to achieve them ourselves. And so help with making fedora even better and the community around fedora can profit from this.

[bob]

Don't forget these lists and methods to communicate with the developers: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Commun...39580b12a902c5

[martin.sourada]

Originally Posted by bob

Don't forget these lists and methods to communicate with the developers: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Commun...39580b12a902c5

I will surely not forget to do so.

[Seve]

Originally Posted by martin.sourada

Recently I went through some threads that made me think about such things like community, fedora and linux future and like things... It was the threads complaining about fedora, usually needlessly The very thread that moved me to write this I did not liked at all, it was but a quite interesting reading, however. So what is on my mind?

I, as anyone in the fedora community, want to have stable, friendly and working system, composed mainly from FOSS. There are certainly many things to improve, to add or to just start think of. Just instead of saying: 'this is crap', or: 'fedora 6 is not ready for release', or any other non-constructive criticism, I want to say: 'I miss this very program in fedora, is it possible to add it to extras?', or 'I would like this and that feature in fedora', or any other suggestions of how to improve fedora (and linux consequently).

So, anyone, if you have any suggestions about the future of fedora, about importing a program, about some valuable feature, etc. please feel free to discuss it here. I think that user community is one of the best sources of ideas about future development. And if we create a good source of ideas here, we can propose the ideas to fedora people or even try to achieve them ourselves. And so help with making fedora even better and the community around fedora can profit from this.

Hello:
Well stated Martin
As always, you have such a reasoned approach to issues like this.

Seve

[kona0197]

Everyone knows what I want added. It would help boost Fedora's popularity if that stuff was built in although Frog does an awesome job adding all of it.

[martin.sourada]

Originally Posted by kona0197

Everyone knows what I want added. It would help boost Fedora's popularity if that stuff was built in although Frog does an awesome job adding all of it.

I don't suppose you are talking about FOSS... Fedora was always supposed to be composed of FOSS, like it or not, so don't complain about proprietary stuff not easy installable. You can, if you want, switch to Ubuntu or whatever else. Linux is about choice! But still, I think livna and frog does makes it at as easy as possible to install all such stuff. Nontheless if you mean the other things than installing proprietary stuff that frog does why not say it aloud? Just state that you want, eg., nautilus opening folders in same window as default and we can discuss it with other users and with fedora devs.

[Al3xanR0]

I would like YUM to be faster, no flaming please this is a legitmate request. I am so over the whole proprietary software issue, let's move on. There are more import details to iron out like the speed of YUM. YUM work good, last long time... just a little slow for my taste. Yes I agree I could switch to another distro but, that is not the issue here now is it?

my $0.02

[JN4OldSchool]

I will say though ALEX, that yum has come a long long way since FC4. Have you ever used apt-get? Or Yast? Yum is not that bad right now. You also have to take into consideration that the server is still loaded down from all the FC6 downloads and everyone updating at once. It seems to me that early last week it was flying but has become bogged again since about sat or sun. I think this will ease up a bit in future.

As far as Kona...Yeah, this one has been beat to death my friend. FC will not include these proprietary codecs so you might as well just accept this. Now it would be nice if there would be a way to point new users to a guide that would tell of all this stuff and how to fix it. Something a blind man would see upon install. Like big red 50 font letters on the desktop saying "goto www.fixme.com (hahaha lol, not ment to be a link! You can surf to Doc's place if you want but it was unintentional )to get FC up to speed." I didnt even know about frog until yesterday, but since that is not available for FC6 (?) it is hardly worth mentioning. Maybe if dude can get some help it will go somewhere, but I dont like an "install everything" script. I prefer Stanton Finley's method and he will be greatly missed. MJWIRED and FEDORAFAQ are still available though. But all in all, I actually feel it is advantagous for a new user to follow Stanton's guide and manualy do this stuff themselves copying Stanton's commands into their terminal. This is a nice little intro into Linux and FC and is pretty foolproof and instills a lot of confidance into the noob. I just have something against a distro that is "too" easy. It is a false sense of security and a user will eventually have to get down and dirty sometime anyway.

My pet peevs? It is funny that since the last time I talked about what I thought could be improved most of what I said has happened. My biggest peeve now is the fact that anaconda doesnt just install with "vesa" and leave the driver detection to the user. Now this may seem like a step backwards to most, but us nVidia peeps especially see this as a huge problem. What happens when a noob goes to install FC for the first time and gets a garbled screen on startx? I will tell you. That distro gets trashed! They miss out on a great experience because they didnt know enough to type "linux vesa" at the install prompt. This is most unfortunate and if the devs wont fix the crappy "nv" driver then they need to just default to vesa. I would also like to address the 3.something GB DVD iso. Now this was the first time I just downloaded the first two install discs, did a base install and upgraded via yum. This worked the charm for me! This is the way to go when your internet connection sucks and the servers are hosed anyway. As it was it took two days to download the two discs! I would have been a week and a half on the stupid DVD. I am so thankful this is an option. NOW ADVERTISE THIS!!! Let people know they can do this on the download page! other complaints?.....hmmm.....I really have none directly related to FC...KDE, OO.o, FF...but none that are FC's fault. I wish FC would work on midi software detection, there really is no excuse this isnt better in Linux, but it is a Linux wide problem, not just FC...The lack of a physical mountpoint in /media is a headache but once you know the solution it is easily overcome...no, I am pretty much good. Nothing is perfect, Linux is still a long way from it, but FC is as goiod as it gets in my book.

[flebber]

Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool

I would also like to address the 3.something GB DVD iso. Now this was the first time I just downloaded the first two install discs, did a base install and upgraded via yum. This worked the charm for me! This is the way to go when your internet connection sucks and the servers are hosed anyway. As it was it took two days to download the two discs! I would have been a week and a half on the stupid DVD. .

I agree with this but Fedora is already on the path to a killer solution with the new anaconda installer able to connect other repo's during install.

We just need to take it one step further and have a small installation disk run anaconda link to mirrors based on location/preference and download only the packages required. Saving a person like me 2Gb of downloading and fedora a fair wack on the costs of all these excessive downloads.

For what its worth, fedora could have a put your money where your mouth is approach to mp3 and dvd and codec etc support. If we pay for these then they are liscensed and legal, so each user that wants this support could pay say $20 a year for access to the restricted repo with all this stuff and all parties are legal covered.

This idea would be heaps better if the repo wasn't distro specific and any user could license him/herself regardless of the distro they chose and would have legal access to these at any time. Giving the end user the choice to operate legally and ethically as they wish and enforces no pressure on a distribution to provide non FOSS software.

Of course this doesn't include ATI/Nvidia as that is closed source and is purely a users choice to install or not.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by flebber

We just need to take it one step further and have a small installation disk run anaconda link to mirrors based on location/preference and download only the packages required. Saving a person like me 2Gb of downloading and fedora a fair wack on the costs of all these excessive downloads.

Such a thing already exists. boot.iso is about 10 MB and will allow network installs. Use the askmethod parameter when booting a CD burned with boot.iso, the rescue CD, or CD 1.

Originally Posted by flebber

For what its worth, fedora could have a put your money where your mouth is approach to mp3 and dvd and codec etc support. If we pay for these then they are liscensed and legal, so each user that wants this support could pay say $20 a year for access to the restricted repo with all this stuff and all parties are legal covered.

Fluendo already is offering such a license. Fedora isn't jumping at the offer because it is restricted. And mp3 is still patented. The legal issues remain murky, so I predict this will remain 3rd party for the foreseeable future.

[martin.sourada]

Originally Posted by Jman

Such a thing already exists. boot.iso is about 10 MB and will allow network installs. Use the askmethod parameter when booting a CD burned with boot.iso, the rescue CD, or CD 1.


Fluendo already is offering such a license. Fedora isn't jumping at the offer because it is restricted. And mp3 is still patented. The legal issues remain murky, so I predict this will remain 3rd party for the foreseeable future.

I think the problem is mostly in the US. AFAIK I can use all of the codecs I need legally here in EU without paying to fluendo or anyone else. But for people in the USA fluendo is certainly good.

[kona0197]

Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool

I will say though ALEX, that yum has come a long long way since FC4. Have you ever used apt-get? Or Yast? Yum is not that bad right now. You also have to take into consideration that the server is still loaded down from all the FC6 downloads and everyone updating at once. It seems to me that early last week it was flying but has become bogged again since about sat or sun. I think this will ease up a bit in future.

As far as Kona...Yeah, this one has been beat to death my friend. FC will not include these proprietary codecs so you might as well just accept this. Now it would be nice if there would be a way to point new users to a guide that would tell of all this stuff and how to fix it. Something a blind man would see upon install. Like big red 50 font letters on the desktop saying "goto www.fixme.com (hahaha lol, not ment to be a link! You can surf to Doc's place if you want but it was unintentional )to get FC up to speed." I didnt even know about frog until yesterday, but since that is not available for FC6 (?) it is hardly worth mentioning. Maybe if dude can get some help it will go somewhere, but I dont like an "install everything" script. I prefer Stanton Finley's method and he will be greatly missed. MJWIRED and FEDORAFAQ are still available though. But all in all, I actually feel it is advantagous for a new user to follow Stanton's guide and manualy do this stuff themselves copying Stanton's commands into their terminal. This is a nice little intro into Linux and FC and is pretty foolproof and instills a lot of confidance into the noob. I just have something against a distro that is "too" easy. It is a false sense of security and a user will eventually have to get down and dirty sometime anyway.

My pet peevs? It is funny that since the last time I talked about what I thought could be improved most of what I said has happened. My biggest peeve now is the fact that anaconda doesnt just install with "vesa" and leave the driver detection to the user. Now this may seem like a step backwards to most, but us nVidia peeps especially see this as a huge problem. What happens when a noob goes to install FC for the first time and gets a garbled screen on startx? I will tell you. That distro gets trashed! They miss out on a great experience because they didnt know enough to type "linux vesa" at the install prompt. This is most unfortunate and if the devs wont fix the crappy "nv" driver then they need to just default to vesa. I would also like to address the 3.something GB DVD iso. Now this was the first time I just downloaded the first two install discs, did a base install and upgraded via yum. This worked the charm for me! This is the way to go when your internet connection sucks and the servers are hosed anyway. As it was it took two days to download the two discs! I would have been a week and a half on the stupid DVD. I am so thankful this is an option. NOW ADVERTISE THIS!!! Let people know they can do this on the download page! other complaints?.....hmmm.....I really have none directly related to FC...KDE, OO.o, FF...but none that are FC's fault. I wish FC would work on midi software detection, there really is no excuse this isnt better in Linux, but it is a Linux wide problem, not just FC...The lack of a physical mountpoint in /media is a headache but once you know the solution it is easily overcome...no, I am pretty much good. Nothing is perfect, Linux is still a long way from it, but FC is as goiod as it gets in my book.

Well Fedora SHOULD allow users to choose between a clean FOSS install or a dirty install with all the goodies put in. You all add that stuff in later so what's the difference? Everyone else is doing it why not Fedora? Grrrrr....

[martin.sourada]

Originally Posted by kona0197

Well Fedora SHOULD allow users to choose between a clean FOSS install or a dirty install with all the goodies put in. You all add that stuff in later so what's the difference? Everyone else is doing it why not Fedora? Grrrrr....

The difference is that livna or whatever other repo with such stuff is not connected with fedora. Fedora is entirely composed from FOSS and will ever be. If you don't like that you must use livna to use proprietary crap drivers like nvidia or fglrx and install from there libdvd* and other stuff to play your LEGALLY bought DVD, stop complaining, read Fedora Guidelines and go somewhere else, because if you don't like that fedora does not support such things than it is not for you! But still - about the DVDs - there is some difference to mp3's since DVDs you usually bought and have it legally so why you can't play it with default linux configuration? That certainly is not right, but go and moan elsewhere than to fedora devs - there is nothing they can do about that.

I wish you better mood.

btw: this thread I started to improve fedora and opensource and to have some debate what users expects from fedora - but that include only FOSS, no proprietary things, be they good or not.

[Finalzone]

Originally Posted by kona0197

Well Fedora SHOULD allow users to choose between a clean FOSS install or a dirty install with all the goodies put in. You all add that stuff in later so what's the difference? Everyone else is doing it why not Fedora? Grrrrr....

What about the ability to choose a repository to install your favorite proprietary package provided by Fedora Core 6 and future version?

[martin.sourada]

Originally Posted by Finalzone

What about the ability to choose a repository to install your favorite proprietary package provided by Fedora Core 6 and future version?

I think I do not understand what you mean. Do you mean that Fedora should include livna.repo, dries.repo, etc. in default installation and ask which ones you want to enable?