Trouble installing Fedora 7

[jo_atman]

I have had consistent trouble installing Fedora 7. I have an ancient Pentium II 350, running Windows XP Professional, and i've been trying to install Fedora 7 with dual boot. I tried doing this a few months ago, and had similar problems:
The dual boot loader just does not show up. If i chose fedora as my default boot OS, then it just starts Fedora with no GRUB loader screen. If i chose windows, then it starts Windows, again, without no GRUB loader.
Today, i downloaded the F-7-i383DVD iso again, thinking maybe this was fixed. this time, i got stuck much before the dual boot. 2 problems:
1. i have a DVD drive, and a CD drive, and i'm using the DVD drive to do the installation. at some point, it pops open my CD drive, and says, "no fedora discs found in any of your drives". so i have to do some trickery like opening up the DVD drive and then hitting OK, and doing this a few times, before it notices the DVD in the DVD drive and resumes installation.
2. after checking for dependencies, and starting the install, it complained about some particular rpm missing a file or being corrupt. so i tried again, and got the same error. of course, because of this error, now i couldn't even get into windows. i would only get the minimal BASH-like grub command line. so i had to repeat the process a third time, to make sure that i chose Windows as my default boot option, and guess what? no errors about missing or corrupt files. it started installing. i'm still in the midst of the install (it takes more than 2 hours on my machine), so i wouldn't be surprised if i get another error.

Anyways, sorry about the length of the e-mail. i'm just frustrated in my attempts to install a worthy opponent to Gates' windoze, and ready to give up... for now.

[marko]

The key is "Ancient PII 350", it probably doesn't satisfy the minimum memory
requirement, at least not for F7's fancy graphical mode install.

see section 6.3.1.1. Processor and memory
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/releas...hSpecific.html

Mark

[jo_atman]

I thought linux (i guess not fedora) was supposed to be the savior of the ancient machines like PII 350...
anyways, the whole install went through after a couple of hours, and when i rebooted, no dual boot (for a millisecond, it flashes "loading GRUB..." or something, and then boots up Windows...
so i guess there's no way to get to my fedora 7, even though it's all installed, since the dual boot loader won't show up?

[marko]

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you meant it didn't get past the install.

[stoat]

Originally Posted by jo_atman

so i guess there's no way to get to my fedora 7, even though it's all installed, since the dual boot loader won't show up?

Hello jo_atman,

Maybe not. Try a making a boot floppy just for now. Use it just to see if F7 will boot and run on the old computer.

1. Boot with your Fedora installation DVD.
2. Select Rescue installed system
3. Follow directions & respond to prompts (answer "No" to network).
4. When you reach the sh prompt, enter: chroot /mnt/sysimage
5. Insert a formatted floppy disk into the floppy drive.
6. At the sh prompt enter: /sbin/grub-install --recheck /dev/fd0
7. At the sh prompt, enter: exit
8. Enter exit again to reboot.
9. Remove the DVD but leave the floppy in the drive.
10. See if it boots Fedora

If it does. Good. You can continue booting that way if you want. Or, you can try and fix the boot loader for dual booting F7 & XP, but it will be easier to do from within the working Fedora system booted temporarily by the floppy. And if you ever get that fixed, keep the floppy anyway for emergencies. If none of this worked, you will be no worse off for having tried it.

[jo_atman]

Thanks for the detailed steps.
i followed them upto the point of running the grub-install command.
my computer is connected to a 32" LCD screen, and the initial dos/character-based screens appear with their beginning part chopped off.
so i can't see the initial part of each line.
it said something like "uess BIOS drives. this may take a long time",
and then what i suspect is "[fail]ed. No error reported" etc. etc.
so the command didn't run successfully...

[stoat]

Originally Posted by jo_atman

i followed them upto the point of running the grub-install command.
my computer is connected to a 32" LCD screen, and the initial dos/character-based screens appear with their beginning part chopped off.
so i can't see the initial part of each line.
it said something like "uess BIOS drives. this may take a long time",
and then what i suspect is "[fail]ed. No error reported" etc. etc.
so the command didn't run successfully...

Or, it might have said something like this...

grub-install --recheck /dev/fd0
Probing devices to guess BIOS drives. This may take a long time.
Installation finished. No error reported.
This is the contents of the device map /boot/grub/device.map.
Check if this is correct or not. If any of the lines is incorrect,
fix it and re-run the script `grub-install'.

(fd0)   /dev/fd0
(hd0)   /dev/sda

Did you try booting with the floppy?

[jo_atman]

Truly appreciate the pointers - so after reading the correct messages in your reply, i ran back and tried to boot from the floppy: Got a "GRUB Geom Error". Any idea how to get past that?
Thanks,
Nilesh

[stoat]

Originally Posted by jo_atman

Got a "GRUB Geom Error". Any idea how to get past that?

Yes, I suggest that you reinstall GRUB on the hard drive using linux rescue like you just did for the floppy. But before you do that, you must determine the correct target of that command (it was an easy guess for the floppy, not so for the hard drive). And before you bother with that, I need to ask: Is Windows XP still booting normally? Or has it been disabled by earlier installation attempts? How many drives are involved in this? Where is XP installed? Where is Fedora installed? You need to understand things like that to proceed from here. It will help if you post the results of these commands from linux rescue:

cat /etc/fstab
cat /boot/grub/grub.conf
/sbin/fdisk -l
ls /boot
ls /boot/grub

To make copying all that stuff easier, redirect each command to a text file on a floppy. Take the floppy to the computer you are using now and paste the text in your next post. To do what I just said, while in linux rescue:

mkdir /mnt/floppy
Insert a formatted floppy in the floppy drive
mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy 
cat /etc/fstab > /mnt/floppy/fstab.txt
cat /boot/grub/grub.conf > /mnt/floppy/grubconf.txt
/sbin/fdisk -l > /mnt/floppy/fdisk.txt
ls /boot > /mnt/floppy/lsboot.txt
ls /boot/grub > /mnt/floppy/lsgrub.txt
umount /mnt/floppy

I know that looks like a mess, but it beats hand copying the results of all those commands to paper and then typing them into a post. All that stuff will help you understand where everything is located, issue the grub-install command with confidence, and probably help with anything else that comes up. So it's worth the effort to get it printed in the record now.

P.S.: All those characters in those commands that look like the numeral one are really a lower case L.

[jo_atman]

Hello again,
Apologize for completely disappearing for a week or more - this is an underground project for me that gets carried out when my wife is out visiting her folks. this is one of those weekends, so i have to get it working.
I'll answer your questions first, and then proceed to get all the information you requested.
Windows XP still boots fine. There are actually 3 hard drives involved: a "mega super-size" 6G, an "ultra mega super-size" 40G (on which windows XP is installed), and a normal sized 250G external USB2.0 hard drive. The linux was initially split between the two internal hard drives, and then the last time i installed linux, i think i installed it on the external hard drive.
Feel free to suggest reconfiguration. Hopefully you're still out there reading this topic.
Meanwhile, i'll go get the required info from the install.
Thanks,
Nilesh

[JN4OldSchool]

Reading through your thread it is probably good you took the breather. How much RAM you running? I think you need to first find out if the computer is going to run a modern Linux. If you have a decent broadband connection then the best way would be to take an hour and DL a "live" distro of some kind. Fedora offers a live CD as does Ubuntu and most others. This will allow you to run the distro from your CD/DVD drive. You might be better off trying to install the live version of Fedora anyway as it is slightly lighter than the default DVD version. Any extra packages can be picked up through Yum later anyway.

If it can run OK then for install I would just use that 40GB drive that XP is on. Just shrink the XP partition down to 20-28GB and leave the rest free space. Use Gparted or something like that for this step. Then just install in that free space using the automatic, default LVM partitioning. You dont do a thing, let the installer do it all. Put grub in the MBR of that 40GB drive and make sure the bios boots off that drive. This should be the easiest way. As far as the other drives...well, the 250GB would make a good /whateveryouwanttocallit for personal stuff, or just leave it as is. The 6GB? I would go throw that at a bus or something...When you decide you like Fedora and can talk your better half into it then go buy an 80GB + drive to replace the 6GB and use that for /home.

[jo_atman]

I did try installing F7 all 86000 different ways on the different drives i had, not once being able to make the dual boot work (my ancient FC2 had been a cakewalk in terms of installation).
I was enjoying what stoat was telling me to do, cause it makes me feel like i'm getting into unix/linux internals a little bit.
But maybe i should back up a little bit and ask the following questions:
1. Is my PII 350 good for anything? i was thinking running a webserver on it. Any thoughts?
2. I have all my data backed up on my 250G. should i reformat the drives, and reinstall WindowsXP/Vista and F7? I still don't know if the dual boot will function after this.
Thanks,
Nilesh

[JN4OldSchool]

Originally Posted by jo_atman

I did try installing F7 all 86000 different ways on the different drives i had, not once being able to make the dual boot work (my ancient FC2 had been a cakewalk in terms of installation).

Well...if you have tried all those ways and it wont work, especially if you have dual booted with Linux in the past, then you have a problem somewhere. You will need to think it through. But dont over-complicate things. An XP/Linux dual boot on the same drive should be as easy as this:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...171#post869171

If it isnt then you have mitigating factors involved that you will need to troubleshoot.

I was enjoying what stoat was telling me to do, cause it makes me feel like i'm getting into unix/linux internals a little bit.

Thats cool. Stoat is a good man, he definitely knows what he is about. Especially in dual booting with Microsoft, I would actually say that is his specialty. But, I am sure when he comes back and re-reads this thread it will hit him like it hit me that your PII is the first likely suspect here. This is the first question I would ask also, can that computer run F7?

But maybe i should back up a little bit and ask the following questions:
1. Is my PII 350 good for anything? i was thinking running a webserver on it. Any thoughts?
2. I have all my data backed up on my 250G. should i reformat the drives, and reinstall WindowsXP/Vista and F7? I still don't know if the dual boot will function after this.
Thanks,
Nilesh

You have a cool monitor, you need a decent computer. That said, you would be able to do SOMETHING with what you have. If it runs XP it cant be all that bad. I was running DSL (damn small linux) on a win 98 laptop that did a decent job for almost 2 years before it finally went south on me. Search this forum for threads by johnthetrain for some ideas, he is the weak computer guy. Maybe you can do a text install and add Xfce or Fluxbox to F7? I dont know.

edit: BTW, you said "XP/Vista?" lol, good luck with Vista. If it will run that it will most certainly run F7!!!

[John the train]

Hi jo_atman.
How much RAM do you have on your PII? I'm posting this from a Dell Latitude laptop with 192MB RAM, and I've had FC4,5&6 running on it. The problem I hit with F7 was that I only have a CD drive, and 192MB doesn't seem to be enough to run and install from the live CD, but I did have an install of Momonga ( a F7 fork ) running - I junked that due to problems building a full desktop on the minimal install, Gnomebaker couldn't find my CD drive for one thing! - so F7 should run on 192 MB as advertised, but don't expect terrific speed or any of the eye candy.
Other options you could explore are some of the live CD's, for the moment I'm using SAM Linux - until I can source a new desktop! - it's based on PCLinux, which has the reputation of recognising virtually any hardware known to computing, but uses the XFCE desktop, which is easier on resources than Gnome or KDE - hence JN4's reference to it in his post. Another PCLinux fork is Bugnux, which uses the Enlightenment desktop, also lightweight. Linux mint is also worth a look, it's Ubuntu with a makeover in a fetching green shade, and there is a Community Edition with XFCE. Any of these should fit on your 6GB drive, that's all I have in the laptop, and SAM and Mint have the facility to install from the live CD desktop. Bugnux has a rather different way of installing, which I haven't tried yet, but SAM & Mint will walk you through selecting which drive to install on, partitioning and installing grub. I'll defer to Stoat on that area, but if you select install grub to MBR it should dual-boot, though I've had no experience of multiple drives.
Hope this will be of some help.

[jo_atman]

Ok, now i'm completely dead in the water.
after playing around a little more with the installation, i got it to the point where windows wouldn't boot anymore. so i said, let's mess it up a little bit more, and try to install Vista. Vista at the very beginning complained about the bios not being fully ACPI(?) compliant, and stopped. so i pulled out my original XP CD and tried to reinstall XP, and all I got was a blank screen (after the initial "press any key to install", and "determining hardware configuration..."), so next i said, "screw it. let's reformat everything and install FC7 exclusively". no dual boot, no problem. FC7 installation went through and said "Congratulations. FC7 installed. click reboot to restart the system". when i restarted the system all i got was a "grub>" command line, and i couldn't do anything.
So now i have a computer that won't install WindowsXP or FC7.
Should i look at the lighter linuxes that John mentioned above?
Help?