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  #1  
Old 26th April 2012, 10:39 PM
emoric Offline
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Don't tell Debian but...

Last night I decided to leave my 3 year old Debian install for Fedora. Same install mind you. It was just a spare of the moment thing. I had used Fedora back in the day when either Fedora Core 1 or 2 was around. I can honestly say Fedora Core was the first distrobution I had ever sucessly installed. I can see a lot of things have changed.

So anyways, I few questions came to mind that I wanted to ask. I could always of course look them up myself and I've found the Fedora wiki to be very helpful but then I would have no reason to conversate with all you fine people.

I've been reading a lot of different methods to installing a minimal base system. Pherhaps there is an option in the full DVD install? I just can't be bothered downloading that large of an image. Is there an offical way to install just the core system? I'd like to build my Fedora system by picking and choosing instead of having all of these meta packages installed.

I'm using the KDE spin of Fedora. To be honest, I've just started using KDE. I've been a XFCE guy for a while but decided to try it and I just never left. How well is the KDE side of the distrobution maintained? Better than most? Just a much as the default GNOME? Besides the unwanted application such as the alarm clock, I'm rather impressed with the install. A few distros have been known to just drop their support for certain desktop environments. I would hate to see that happen. I'm sure you all could reasure me however. To put it simply, GNOME being the default environment in Fedora has me sitting a little bit on the edge. Tell me there is nothing to worry about. Ha. I just don't see myself using GNOME 3.

Back in the day Fedora was always known as the bleeding edge distrobution. How true is that now today? Not that I mind bleeding egde of course. Fedora's rawhide comes to mind. Would an everyday user like you and I use it? Does it ever release? Is it anything close to rolling? Again, I'm sure I could look this up but just for the sake of conversation.

Compared to aptitude and apt I'm actually enjoying using yum. The ability to downgrade a package without jumping above and beyond?! This is good stuff. One question comes to mind. The commands 'yum remove package-foo' and 'yum erase package-foo'. Is there a difference? Coming from Debian this looks very similar to the remove and purge commands. What does the avaerage user use?

Fedora obviously releases. This is every 6 months, correct? How are users experience upgrading to release after release? I do not want to be the guy to have to reinstall every time. That would be an absolute deal breaker for me. Again, I'm sure I can be reasured although I would like honest experiences.

If anything else comes to mind I'm sure you guys will hear about it but at this point in time I can say that I like blue and fedoras are starting to grow on me.
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  #2  
Old 26th April 2012, 10:49 PM
sillav Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

I switched as well. My limited experience tells me that rawhide is like experimental (don't use it), yumex is a great tool, dependencies aren't automatically uninstalled when removing packages you've installed, so yum history is your best friend there (good post about it on planet fedora today), I don't upgrade just install fresh, this way I always have a nice stable fedora to fall back onto while trying out the next version. I've been using 17 for about 6 weeks now and haven't booted into F16 for that entire time. Once F18 alpha is released I'll install it over the F16, and use F17 as the backup.
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  #3  
Old 26th April 2012, 11:11 PM
sea Online
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Welcome back, i guess

Yes, Fedora is still bleeding edge, and its release cycle is about 6 months.
The Alpha/Beta is named Rawhide... imho its kinda of a word play.. hide the raw matierial before releases

With the recent and near future massive changes (gnome3, grub2, run-move) it is usualy less error prone to do a fresh install each release you use.
However, there's an article on docs.fedoraproject.com how to do pre-upgrade using yum.

Using Fedora as Main-OS, i'd also suggest something like sillav describes.
IF you're going to install rawhide for testing purposes, prepare like 2-3 partitions for the 2-3 diffrent root partitions, a shared home partition, and if all distros use grub2, maybe a shared /boot partition either.

Personal experience, i have found the betas very stable, once they were installable

Hope this helps.
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  #4  
Old 27th April 2012, 03:51 AM
BBQdave Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by emoric View Post
Fedora obviously releases. This is every 6 months, correct? How are users experience upgrading to release after release? I do not want to be the guy to have to reinstall every time. That would be an absolute deal breaker for me.
I too recently moved from Debian to Fedora. Switched from Debian 6 (Gnome 2) to F16 Xfce. I was happy with a smooth transition, and I am really happy with a stable distro (like Debian) with up to date applications (Fedora).

My thoughts on Fedora and release cycles, is every other one. F16 has support for one year, at which point I will install F18. Not the length of support that Debian has, but still decent.

From what I have read here in the forum, it can be a bit of an adventure upgrading between releases.
So, I can handle annually a fresh install with yum update
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  #5  
Old 27th April 2012, 04:34 AM
DBelton Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea View Post

The Alpha/Beta is named Rawhide... imho its kinda of a word play.. hide the raw matierial before releases

Actually, the Alpha/Beta isn't Rawhide. They switch over now right before Alpha. The current Alpha/Beta is F17 and Rawhide is F18.
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  #6  
Old 27th April 2012, 04:48 AM
hadrons123 Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

recently i went other way round. I have special place for fedora and still have it on one of my systems.
But I don't find any reason why one would have to move from debian (testing or unstable) to fedora.
I find fedora break more often than debian testing does,IMHO.

There is minimal install option for fedora like in netinstall at all fedora mirrors.
for 64 bit http://mirror.cse.iitk.ac.in/fedora/...mages/boot.iso
For 32 bit you can navigate from here.
http://mirror.cse.iitk.ac.in/fedora/releases/16/Fedora/
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  #7  
Old 27th April 2012, 05:57 AM
sillav Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrons123 View Post
recently i went other way round. I have special place for fedora and still have it on one of my systems.
But I don't find any reason why one would have to move from debian (testing or unstable) to fedora.
I find fedora break more often than debian testing does,IMHO.

There is minimal install option for fedora like in netinstall at all fedora mirrors.
for 64 bit http://mirror.cse.iitk.ac.in/fedora/...mages/boot.iso
For 32 bit you can navigate from here.
http://mirror.cse.iitk.ac.in/fedora/releases/16/Fedora/
I made the switch because of Gnome 3, systemd and the removal of hal. As much as I dislike some of the changes in Gnome3, it is very easy to remove most of the crap (documents, boxes), and to clean up or fix with extensions all the other suckage they put in there (add shutdown to menu, clean up the activities, hide unused icons, chat groups, change accels to make nautilus delete again, etc etc....). In a somewhat related point, somebody ought to tell the Gnome people that every time they use the word "story" to talk about applications they sound like total douches.

It took, what, until 3.4 for *almost* everything to get into testing? I was running sid with bits from experimental for most of my time in debian. No problems. I've found a released version of fedora to be about the same as testing in Debian in terms of stability. But Fedora comes out with the latest in software much, much faster. It was the same with xfce 4.08, it was a good year after release before everything was in testing.

I still run Debian on my plugcomputer used for nas and backup. Because that's the kind of thing you want to install once and then just have it run forever without hiccups.

So mostly that, but all the bs in the user forums starting up about 12 months back was the final straw. Aside from missing aptitude... it's been a great change for me.

Last edited by sillav; 27th April 2012 at 06:03 AM.
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  #8  
Old 27th April 2012, 06:46 AM
Evil_Bert Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea View Post
Welcome back, i guess Rawhide... imho its kinda of a word play.. hide the raw matierial before releases
[pedantic]

Rawhide is the hide of cattle before it's tanned and turned into leather: raw (cow's) hide.

[/pedantic]
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  #9  
Old 27th April 2012, 07:27 AM
DBelton Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Bert View Post
[pedantic]

Rawhide is the hide of cattle before it's tanned and turned into leather: raw (cow's) hide.

[/pedantic]
And also the name of an old western series where Clint Eastwood was pretty much an unknown and the series gave him his big break

*signs off singing.... ***

Move 'em on, head 'em up
Head 'em up, move 'em on
Move 'em on, head 'em up
Rawhide
Count 'em out, ride 'em in,
Ride 'em in, count 'em out,
Count 'em out, ride 'em in
Rawhide!
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  #10  
Old 27th April 2012, 08:30 AM
Duplode Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillav View Post
dependencies aren't automatically uninstalled when removing packages you've installed, so yum history is your best friend there (good post about it on planet fedora today)
Wow, that is an excellent tip, thanks! (link to the mentioned blog post: http://giulivo.blogspot.com.br/2012/...-man-page.html) You might also be interested in https://fedorahosted.org/rpmreaper/ , which is what I had been using for that purpose.
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  #11  
Old 27th April 2012, 09:58 AM
stevea Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Bert View Post
[pedantic]

Rawhide is the hide of cattle before it's tanned and turned into leather: raw (cow's) hide.

[/pedantic]
Apparently you don't subscribe to the urban dictionary.
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  #12  
Old 27th April 2012, 10:04 AM
bbfuller Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Apparently you don't subscribe to the urban dictionary.
I've just checked.

Heck, I didn't realise I was that far behind the times. Obviously I haven't moved on since the TV series!
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  #13  
Old 27th April 2012, 06:06 PM
Gareth Jones Offline
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Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by emoric View Post
A few distros have been known to just drop their support for certain desktop environments. I would hate to see that happen. I'm sure you all could reasure me however. To put it simply, GNOME being the default environment in Fedora has me sitting a little bit on the edge.
GNOME has been the default since the start as far as I can tell (I wasn't using Fedora in those days). I doubt Fedora is any more likely to drop other environments now than it was then. GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE and Sugar are all in the repos, along with various others, and there is talk of adding Cinnamon in the future. I don't know how the other desktops compare to GNOME in terms of polish from the Fedora developers though, but I think that they're here to stay.

Quote:
Back in the day Fedora was always known as the bleeding edge distrobution. How true is that now today?
Rawhide certainly is. The stable releases are very up-to-date, about as near to bleeding-edge as it's possible to go without being horribly unstable.

Quote:
Fedora obviously releases. This is every 6 months, correct? How are users experience upgrading to release after release? I do not want to be the guy to have to reinstall every time.
Yes, every 6 months. I always do a full install myself, but there is an upgrade method called "preupgrade", which downloads a core image for the new system and boots it, then upgrades the installed system.
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  #14  
Old 27th April 2012, 10:32 PM
emoric Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: Don't tell Debian but...

Lots and lots of good information here. Thank you hadrons for the netinstall link. I'm downloading it as we speak.

So it seems the upgrade process from release to release causes a slight headache just from what I'm reading. I'll keep playing around with Fedora for a while. Yes, I was running Debian testing/unstable. I was mixing packages from both branches and only had a few hiccups. Somebody above compared Debian's testing with Fedora's current releases. Point Debian's sources at testing or unstable would make the distro roll. Well, if you don't count the freezes before the ready when it's ready releases. I'll keep Fedora installed untill Fedora 17 releases. I'll end up upgrading via yum and hoping for the best.
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