Fedora 17 on new Macbook Air

[chrismurphy]

Originally Posted by BerndM

There is an important question:

Has anybody solved the problem installing only Fedora 17/18 on a Macbook Air (f.e. on the Mid 2011 one)?

I think I would like to change completely to Fedora.

Has anybody done that yet?

Thank you very much for any answer...

Bernd

I don't think Apple hardware is a great selection for running only linux, there's always something that doesn't work right due to lack of drivers or something proprietary/non-standard that Apple has done.

With Fedora 17 the challenge is older kernels possibly don't have support for your video. And with Fedora 18 the challenge is the move to GRUB2 EFI I've had more problems with hung boot at video initialization than I have with GRUB legacy EFI. Once it's running, it's OK, but then there's some lack of power management support, possibly to dial down the GPU, because I don't get great battery life. Although, it is a lot better with EFI boot, than with legacy BIOS boot.

Fedora presently installs assuming OS X is already installed. So it's possible to use existing OS X tools to go back and forth for booting (it sees Fedora in the OS X Startup disk panel). But this same arrangement, if you lose bootability for any reason, it's not possible to regain it without OS X or significant knowledge of GRUB EFI. There simply are no linux GUI tools for managing this.

That said, I still think it's great if you can get it to work. But I've worked on this for 2 years and have had to learn way way way way more about the Apple, EFI, GRUB and linux boot processes and how they uniquely interact, than I think is reasonable for most people. So just realize this is a bit of a rabbit hole, and the behaviors can be different from model to model.

[Raxor]

Originally Posted by chrismurphy

I don't think Apple hardware is a great selection for running only linux, there's always something that doesn't work right due to lack of drivers or something proprietary/non-standard that Apple has done.

I think the only thing that hasn't good support is their non-standard EFI. If you intend to run only Fedora (without Dual-Boot) there shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by chrismurphy

With Fedora 17 the challenge is older kernels possibly don't have support for your video. And with Fedora 18 the challenge is the move to GRUB2 EFI I've had more problems with hung boot at video initialization than I have with GRUB legacy EFI. Once it's running, it's OK, but then there's some lack of power management support, possibly to dial down the GPU, because I don't get great battery life. Although, it is a lot better with EFI boot, than with legacy BIOS boot.

On a MBA 2011 the graphics should work reasonably on a 3.2 series kernel. OS X turns off the SSD to save power (dunno whether Fedora supports these power saving features). However, the graphics probably improved a lot since then.

Originally Posted by chrismurphy

Fedora presently installs assuming OS X is already installed. So it's possible to use existing OS X tools to go back and forth for booting (it sees Fedora in the OS X Startup disk panel). But this same arrangement, if you lose bootability for any reason, it's not possible to regain it without OS X or significant knowledge of GRUB EFI. There simply are no linux GUI tools for managing this.

Yeah, if you have important files without any backup I wouldn't play around with bootability.

I now don't recommend ReFit any longer becouse it is pretty much outdated. It should also work without it. I will download F18 and try a triple-boot OS X/Ubuntu/Fedora, I think (assuming free disk space is no problem).

[Raxor]

I just installed F18 and deleted Ubuntu. No problems on my laptop + easy install. I've got only one short error message about a missing localisation file when booting. I don't care about localisation as long as I can write with my keyboard.

But I am a little bit concerned about the updates. There were about 300 megabytes of updates including kernel 3.7. OK, 3.6 is EOL, but this long download for a not-so-old release (it's not rolling release)? Don't get me wrong. I like updates, especially those that improve performance, but Ubuntu doesn't need that many updates.
Hopefully this won't lead to instability or bugs.

[chrismurphy]

It's Fedora. It's bleeding edge. You can expect 250MB of updates every week or two for its life. If you encounter bugs you're kinda expected to file bug reports on them. It's more of a developer's distribution. If you want something very stable, you either want Ubuntu or CentOS/RHEL.

[Raxor]

Does anyone know how to install Kanotix 2013 on a Mac (2011)?
I tried to create a FAT32 partition and grub-install, but doesn't work (no entry when pressing Alt and grub rescue at startup).
Fedora seems to know how to install properly on a Mac, but I do not want to waste half of my time with updates. Kanotix has the latest kernel and does not seem to require updates.

[chrismurphy]

Originally Posted by Raxor

Does anyone know how to install Kanotix 2013 on a Mac (2011)?

Considering it's Debian derived I don't think you're going to learn anything about it on a Fedora forum.

I tried to create a FAT32 partition and grub-install, but doesn't work (no entry when pressing Alt and grub rescue at startup).

The installer must know about Apple hardware's unique requirements or it won't work. Just like Fedora 16 and older didn't produce bootable systems either, because they didn't create hybrid MBRs a requirement for Apple's CSM-BIOS. For native EFI installs, Apple's non-standard implementation means you won't see any options without a 3rd party boot manager like rEFInd or gummiboot.

Fedora seems to know how to install properly on a Mac, but I do not want to waste half of my time with updates. Kanotix has the latest kernel and does not seem to require updates.

OK well you can waste well more than half your time with figuring out how to make Kanotix bootable then. It's a rabbit hole. Or maybe a rat hole.

[Raxor]

Originally Posted by chrismurphy

Considering it's Debian derived I don't think you're going to learn anything about it on a Fedora forum.

Thx for the fast reply. I don't have an account for every distri's forum, but I could ask on a Ubuntu forum too.

The installer must know about Apple hardware's unique requirements or it won't work. Just like Fedora 16 and older didn't produce bootable systems either, because they didn't create hybrid MBRs a requirement for Apple's CSM-BIOS. For native EFI installs, Apple's non-standard implementation means you won't see any options without a 3rd party boot manager like rEFInd or gummiboot.

I thought it can't be that difficult. If I create a FAT32 partition and a efi folder with grub I get to grub. Available commands are boot, set, load... no shutdown command.

OK well you can waste well more than half your time with figuring out how to make Kanotix bootable then. It's a rabbit hole. Or maybe a rat hole.

Most laptops have Windows preinstalled, which I do not want to use or to pay, are not as satisfying as a Mac or are Macs, which seem to be restricted to Ubuntu and Fedora. It is nearly impossible to get a perfect laptop... build a pc myself is a good option. So that's what my future will hold.

-----
I got it working now... it always said missing file in /boot/grub/pc- or so
The solution:
help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
I hope it is allowed to write something ubuntu-related in this forum. Tell me if not.
Advanced options
GRUB location: /dev/sda
GRUB options: the first one

However, I don't know why it didn't find the file after a fresh install.

[chrismurphy]

Originally Posted by Raxor

I thought it can't be that difficult. If I create a FAT32 partition and a efi folder with grub I get to grub.

The Apple EFI built-in start up volume manager (option at startup) ignores bootloaders on a FAT32 EFI System partition. It only shows them when they're on HFS, and they've been blessed with the bless command. The bless command adds an entry for the bootloader in NVRAM and also modifies the HFS+ volume header. Only if there's a volume header pointer to the bootloader does it show up as an icon with the Apple startup volume manager.

Relying entirely on an NVRAM entry is fragile on Macs because Apple doesn't provide user access to a built-in boot manager to choose anything other than what it's looking for. It is possible to get grub as a boot manager/loader to work from a FAT32 EFI System partition, but it'll only ever have an NVRAM entry. If that NVRAM entry is cleared, or if you ever attached an HFS+ formatted disk with a blessed system on it, the Apple EFI will defer to that system and the computer won't be bootable.

So Fedora creates a 200MB HFS+ volume to use as the EFI System partition.

Another way around the Apple EFI is create your own HFS+ volume, and install rEFInd or gummiboot to it. They can be configured to locate and directly boot linux using the built-in linux EFI STUB bootloader, rather than using GRUB.

Most laptops have Windows preinstalled, which I do not want to use or to pay, are not as satisfying as a Mac or are Macs, which seem to be restricted to Ubuntu and Fedora.

That's just because those distributions have done the work needed to work around Apple's EFI implementation. If you understand it, you can work around it also. Hence, rabbit hole / rat hole.