Rebrand/remix Fedora

[ecullerton]

Hello everyone!

I have some questions about customizing Fedora so that I can sell it with new computers.

The computers I would like to sell are customized for audio recording, and the best system I have found is Fedora + Planet CCRMA.

This setup has a real time kernel, and a list of packages from the planet CCRMA repository.

It would be great if I could just install Fedora, then install the packages from planet CCRMA, then sell the computer, but I am starting to understand it is not that easy.

I would really appreciate if I could get some guidance from some experts on why I can't do this, and what would be the best path for me to pursue.

Thank you very much!

[leigh123linux]

Thread moved to General Support as it isn't a guide or a Howto.

[sonoran]

Hi ecullerton-

It is unclear from your post why you think you can't do it. Do you mean you lack the knowledge,
or do you anticipate legal problems?

Creating your own distro definitely requires a LOT of knowledge, especially if you plan on
selling it to people.

One thing in your favor is that your "audio distro" would be running on identical hardware,
which might make the complexity manageable.

If I were you I would consider centos rather than fedora. It is stabler to begin with and changes
more slowly, so maintenance would be much easier. Since your customers would be mostly
interested in audio, they probably wouldn't care about the "bleeding edge" aspect of fedora.

If you do not have the Linux know-how/experience yourself, have you considered hiring people
to help with that part? It might be unrealistic to ask for volunteers for something you plan to
make money on.

Sounds like an interesting project (no pun intended). Challenging, for sure.

--Later

[ecullerton]

Thanks for the reply sonoran.

When it comes to redistributing a fedora OS, I found a lot of restrictions when changing fedora's original configuration. I completely understand this, because they want to maintain a quality name brand.

I'm a big fan of linux, and it has a huge potential. The major obstacle is that people don't want to spend their time learning how to make all the required changes to make a OS work they way they want, especially musicians. In the music world, Mac's are king because it's EASY. They buy a computer, turn it on, and within a few clicks, they can start recording music. It costs alot of money though. Windows isn't too bad for music, but it's not properly designed for it, and it still costs alot of money.

Linux needs to be easier to use in order for people to adopt it. There has been so much work done to make linux a great recording platform, but lacks simplicity and access. It took me almost 2 years to understand all the details involved with building a Linux computer that is well designed for audio recording. I want to take what I've learned and offer a easy to use, low cost platform for musicians to use. The low cost is the MAIN reason why a musician would want to use a Linux based system, but the complexity is a huge obstacle. But, if a musician can buy a computer with everything already set up, it would take them no more time start recording than a Mac, and at half the price!

Sorry about the long rant, I'm sure everyone here knows the story. After some thought I have two options:

1. Rebrand fedora with all the changes and give it a new name

or

2. Install fedora and give instructions to the buyer on how to make the changes.

Number 2 almost defeats the purpose, but as of right now, I don't have the know-how to rebrand fedora.



Thanks again for your reply!

[beaker_]

For the short term if the machines are identical wrt hardware i.e., you could set one to your satisfaction and use disk images, the service pack feature, or some shell script to automate installing for you. Then your just selling a preconfigured pc. No it won't have your name on it but if it's turn key & go and you're supporting them then you're still god in their eyes. Yeah satisfy the gnu licensing of course.

I have a 10 & 9 year old daughter & niece who'll argue Linux is easy enough; roland's equipment, guitar, drum, mic and midi keyboard. No wonder I drink!

[JonathanR]

The legal restrictions are not so much the issue. Fedora, as you know, is GPL. So you can make changes and freely distribute it. You can rebrand it. Just comply with the GPL and other licensing.

As sonoran pointed out, the tough part would be making and maintaining it. You'd have to have your own repo and updates, which means your own packages. Any customized scripts would also be done by you.

Maybe Linux From Scratch would be better suited.

We can't help you with the legal aspect. I'd advise you to check with your lawyer.
We can certainly help you with the technical aspect, but no specific technical questions have been posed yet.

[ecullerton]

Thanks for the reply beaker and JonathanR!

I'm still a bit unsure about your advice.

Could I get some more details about your statement about disk images, service pack feature, and shell script as a pre-configured pc. Does this mean I would sell the computer with Fedora installed, include the Fedora installation CD, and include a shell script for the buyer to run at time of arrival? I'm not sure what a service pack feature is.

I really don't want to have to maintain a repository and custom packages, for this would add a layer of cost to a business model, requiring higher prices. So maybe rebranding Fedora is not a cost effective option, since my goal is to make the system as low cost as possible.

I want to leave long term maintenance of the computer up to the buyer, with something like 6 months of support and a detailed manual for setting up the computer.

Thanks again!

[pete_1967]

Just a note to your original question: just remember, you can't charge for Fedora or any other derivative (independent of the distro you use) but you _can_ charge for delivery media (at reasonable cost) and any provided printed manuals, bespoke instruction CDs etc., plus support.

Otherwise, do as you wish and within limits of licenses.

[ecullerton]

Thanks pete for your reply.

I understand completely. I love the open source community and plan to keep the freedom of the software intact. I'm only going to charge for the computer hardware and assembly. I want people to use this stuff, so the software stays free. (unless the customer demands Windows, then I have no problems charging money for installing that)

[sonoran]

Have you looked at this page?

http://linux-sound.org/distro.html

Might give you some clues as to how to integrate with an existing distro. If you're lucky, one of those spins might work for you "out of the box."

It does not appear to me that you would have to re-brand Fedora, or Centos if you go that route.

What you would need to do is install Centos on your new hardware, add the planet CCRMA packages, get everything configured and working the way you want. If possible, write a shell script to automate the process (there are some good examples here in the Forums you could use as a skeleton).

Add the Fedora/Centos and planet CCRMA repositories to the yum configuration, so your machines would update automatically.

It certainly looks possible. Just out of curiosity, and if it isn't a trade secret, what sort of audio-specific hardware are you talking about?

Power to the musicians!

[marko]

There are already multimedia/audio distros out there, why not use one like
64 Studio ?

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=64studio
http://server.ericsbinaryworld.com/b...studio-review/

[ecullerton]

Thanks again for the replies.

I tested a few of these options out over time (64 studio, ubuntu studio, and planet ccrma)

I tried 64 studio for a while, but really my main problem with that is the whole iceweasel firefox thing /pure debian philosophy. That will never sell with the general public. Adding new hardware was always difficult if I remember correctly. I tend to stay away from a distro if I have to start jumping through a bunch of hoops to get it working.

I also tried ubuntu studio. This was my preferred setup for a while. Ubuntu is recognized by more people, and Dell, which will probably make it the Linux of choice in the future. I probably will go back to it when/if they can get the real time kernel working again.

Then there is Fedora + Planet CCRMA. There is nothing tricky about this, and not much I don't like. I haven't used it very long, but already I'm starting to feel like it's a more stable system than ubuntu. (Don't quote me on that yet) I've had no problems with hardware so far, so I'm going to explore the possiblities further.

To answer your hardware questions, here is what I want to offer:

A 20 Input track mobile rack system weighing less than 60 pounds, costing around $2500.

It would be a 4 unit mobile rack case, with a luggage style handle and wheels.

2 focusrite pro10's

a 1U 17 inch lcd that pulls out and flips up, and a 1U rack computer.

The 1U rack computer is custom built by me and consists of intel DG45ID motherboard with an E8400 3GHz Core 2 duo processor + 4 gigs of memory. Probably a 1T harddrive and a dvd-rw.

To any musicians or engineers out there, let me know if this would be something that interest you!

[sonoran]

That's some heavy-duty hardware.

I read the Fedora Trademark Guidelines and I see your problem more clearly.

However, they mention only 3 packages, fedora-logos, fedora-release, and fedora-release-notes, that need to be removed, or that the trademarks need to be removed from. And they even provide the Fedora Remix graphics for you to use for rebranding. Planet CCRMA has some nifty graphics you could probably use as well.

The only places I see the Fedora trademark are the grub boot menu and the login screen. The grub splash image is easily replaced. You could substitute the slim login manager for gdm (gdm isn't working very well right now anyway, so that's no loss).

That doesn't look like such a big deal, merely some "cosmetic" changes. Have you communicated with Fedora or Red Hat about your plans? They might offer you some detailed guidelines, precisely what you have to do to avoid a lawsuit. Worth a shot.

I still think Centos is fundamentally more stable than Fedora, and there is a Centos Planet CCRMA port mentioned on the CCRMA website. But if you have Fedora working on your hardware that's probably a moot point.

Please keep us posted!

[ecullerton]

I just took another look at 64 Studio, and it might be what I'm looking for.

It looks like they are now moving to ubuntu with a custom 64 Studio kernel (which will probably mean the demise of Ubuntu Studio) I think they made the right decision going to an ubuntu system, just from a mass market view. I also like the line of support that they are offering to OEM manufacturers. This could be just what I need! I read this on there website, under OEM's FAQ-

"Why should my company be interested in working with 64 Studio?
There are lots of reasons; here are just a few. We can preconfigure the software, including full branding, saving you development and deployment time. We can support your customers properly, instead of passing them back for you to deal with. And our software can help you differentiate your products in a market saturated with Windows-based systems. Please ask us about the OEM products we've been working on. "

Perfect!

64 studio is now testing a new beta release (64 Studio beta3)

So, I installed the beta3 64 bit version and 32 bit version. Everything installed well for both versions.

The first thing I tried was to turn on was one of the Focusrite saffire pro10's. Didn't work. Bummer.

Ffado is not installed. I see some chatter at the 64 Studio sight about making firewire (ffado) support out of the box, but It doesn't look like they are there yet.

I tried the ffado website, which has a repository with a ffado package just for 64 studio, but it did not work for the 32 bit or 64 bit version. (It is a 32 bit repository, and I think it is designed for 64 Studio 2.1 )

My next step will be to compile ffado from source, connect up 2 saffire pro's and give 64 Studio a real test drive.

If it works out, I think 64 studio will be my choice.

I keep everyone posted on my results! Thanks again to everyone!

[ecullerton]

Here's my latest update.

No luck with the firewire driver (ffado) in 64 studio 3.0 beta3. It appears that there is a new firewire implementation in this version. (no raw1394) They are aware of the problem and working on a fix. I've read that the new firewire is a big improvement, which is promising, especially for the setup I am pursuing. I had 2 focusrite pro10's up and running in fedora and ubuntu studio, and both started to have xruns when running all 20 tracks at 96 kHz. The setup was fine at 88 kHz, so I hope this new implementation let's us push this setup to the max. I'm just going to wait.