Latest kernel update and nvidia drivers

[whych]

For those who have discovered the latest kernel update breaks the nvidia drivers, the solution is to either boot the old kernel till the repo is updated or to download the drivers from nvidia and follow the instructions in the sticky at the start of the hardware section.
Seems like the repo is lagging the kernel updates.

I don't know whether this is also true for radeon drivers.

I'm new to fedora (long time suse user) so knew the method to install was to download the kernel development packages and gcc. I couldn't checking the sticky, since I had no xserver running.

Is this lag in the kernel header updates for nvidia common to every kernel update in fedora?

[marinestu]

Hello

This does seem to be an issue from time to time. I think the general feeling is that if you are using proprietary drives it is best to wait until nvidia release updated drives for the new kernel build.

I now always leave it a couple of weeks before letting the kernel upgrade run.

Stu

[mk27]

Of course installing a new kernel will break your proprietary video driver if you do not re-install the driver. This is because that driver is a kernel module, and a module built for one kernel version cannot be used by another kernel version.

If you build the kernel from source, it does not do any kind of hardware detection; you have to configure it properly. I am sure there is some option there that will work with nvidia cards, however, that option is not the same as the proprietary driver because nvidia's own driver is closed source: it has not nor ever will be included with the linux kernel.

Meaning you have to build your kernel with whatever video driver will work, then re-install the proprietary driver, as you say.

This has nothing to do with fedora, the exact same thing is true on any and all linux installs. If you build from the fedora devel packages, tho, you *might* be able to find a non-free rpm containing a matching nvidia driver (ie, a module built for that kernel version). Otherwise, the module must also be built (via nvidia's installer), and to do that you need to be running the kernel you intend to use.

Originally Posted by marinestu

I think the general feeling is that if you are using proprietary drives it is best to wait until nvidia release updated drives for the new kernel build.

Nvidia does NOT build drivers for each (or any) kernel, it packages a driver-installer specific to your processor architecture and video card. This driver-installer then builds a kernel module. So using a new kernel version will not matter. But again: you wil have to re-run the installer with the new kernel up and running AND the sources for the running kernel installed.

The fusion RPMs that do contain pre-built modules for specific kernels are not made by nvidia, but they are made using the nvidia driver-installer.

[glennzo]

This happens every time there is a kernel update. It's well known, nothing new.

[whych]

Originally Posted by glennzo

This happens every time there is a kernel update. It's well known, nothing new.

I thought as much. A bit disconcerting for new users though just having a blank screen and not realising they can bring up another console in F2 or so to fix the problem.

[glennzo]

Originally Posted by whych

A bit disconcerting for new users though just having a blank screen and not realising they can bring up another console in F2 or so to fix the problem.

Meh. This info is all over this web forum.

[DBelton]

I updated my kernel as soon as it hit the updates-testing repo, and it didn't break my nvidia drivers.

I install the akmod-nvidia package from rpmfusion instead of the kmod-nvidia.

That way, if I update the kernel, and there is no kmod package available in the repo yet, it builds the kernel module for me. (well actually it builds the kernel module on every new kernel, then downloads the kmod module when one does become available.

*sighz* now if I could just figure out how to build an akmod for my wacom kernel module I would be all set on updating my kernel. At least my wacom kernel module doesn't break the system where it won't boot, though.

[whych]

Originally Posted by glennzo

This happens every time there is a kernel update. It's well known, nothing new.

I thought as much. A bit disconcerting for new users though just having a blank screen and not realising they can bring up another console in F2 or so to fix the problem.

@DBelton

I install the akmod-nvidia package from rpmfusion instead of the kmod-nvidia

Thanks for that. I'll give it a try.
Going by the earlier comments, it seems that there is a lag between the new kernel and the proprietary driver module updates for the new kernel.
Been used to suse, where the driver modules are updated along with the kernel.

[DBelton]

one reason that I would recommend that a new user install the akmod package instead of the kmod package for the nvidia drivers.

Then it doesn't break on a kernel update.

Sure you have to keep your kernel headers on your hard drive to build the kernel module from, but it's not that much space taken up and it keeps the thing from breaking on a kernel update and then a new user to linux wondering what the heck just happened, getting frustrated, and wiping out their new linux install before they have a chance to even see what it can do.

[SiliconSlick]

[posted in another thread]

Originally Posted by SiliconSlick

3 updated FC14 systems rebooted here (so far)... only 1 problem

32-bit notebook with non-NVIDIA chip. No problem
32-bit desktop with akmod-nvidia and kmod-nvidia. No problem (there was a kmod-nvidia for the new kernel which installed at the same time (it was available))
64-bit laptop with kmod-nvidia-96xx. Problem (same as OPs). Installed akmod-nvidia-96xx and all is happy.

To the OP, you may want to consider installing the akmod package (vs. the kmod one) so even if rpmfusion doesn't have a driver ready there will be a chance that it will be rebuilt automatically (without an update).

SS

SS

[DBelton]

Originally Posted by whych

@DBelton


Thanks for that. I'll give it a try.
Going by the earlier comments, it seems that there is a lag between the new kernel and the proprietary driver module updates for the new kernel.
Been used to suse, where the driver modules are updated along with the kernel.

Since the nvidia drivers aren't released as a part of Fedora, and are built by the people maintaining RPMFusion, it's a little harder to release the updated driver module along with the updated kernel. The people over at RPMFusion do an excellent job in my opinion of keeping up with it and there usually is very little lag time getting the updated driver modules out there in the repo, but there is a lag, and not a lot can be done about that.

And it's not just the nvidia driver that has the same issues. any of the kmod packages from RPMFusion, or any kernel modules that individuals build for themselves have the same updating problems. (some people's network won't work after a kernel update, and then they can't download the updated kmod when it does become available unless they boot the previous working kernel)

I have used the akmod packages for several years without hardly any problems, and like I stated above, about the main drawback is a little disk space to keep the kernel headers and the driver source, and a few seconds to build the kernel module whenever you update the kernel.

[RawFoX]

Originally Posted by DBelton

Since the nvidia drivers aren't released as a part of Fedora, and are built by the people maintaining RPMFusion, it's a little harder to release the updated driver module along with the updated kernel.

Exacly.

A new Fedora user will at first use the Fedora provided grafic driver and that does not make these probems.
The growing experience makes you compile the nvidia drivers by yourself, nvidia made a good job with their linux drivers, that also means you have to do it manually with every kernel update, whats not a biggy either.
Well, the lazy me uses the rpm-fusion packages, and ill have to wait for what ? 2 days ? before i can use the new kernel, where the previous ran also good, so its really no biggy.

Yeah, new users may not know how to switch consoles and maybe not everyone will fallback to the previous kernel, but places like this are here, to bring the word out

cheers ^^

[whych]

@RawFox
I think it's probably a cert that many users who only use fedora are blissfully unaware there is a boot menu hidden behind the boot graphic, let alone know that one of the boot options is for the old kernel.

They forget or have never learned that linux has a 'help yourself' attitude to support and that you should read a lot!

My problem is that my ati cards work fine with opensource drivers, but the nvidia cards refuse to play ball. I end up with 1024x768 max on a monitor that can do more (1680x1050) using nouveau.

It's not a problem doing a manual install or waiting for rpmfusion to catch up, so long as you are aware of it.

Anyone tried using the opensuse nvidia repo at ftp://download.nvidia.com/opensuse with fedora?
It rebuilds/links the modules for each kernel update on suse.

[DBelton]

well, the opensuse repo has drivers for a much older kernel than is in F14.

the rpm's in that repo are for 2.6.34.12-27 and F14 is currently at 2.6.35.11-83, so they wouldn't work.

[whych]

Since they are peculir to opensuse, they also give a lot of dependency problems that show they are only for suse.