F15 experiences

[pedora]

I've had nothing but problems since trying it. It messed up my dual-boot and I get messages that are for network administrators.

I wanted a low resource DE so I tried xfce. One of the messages is xfce-related to do with internet. But, my internet is running.

I don't know why Fedora doesn't care about other Linux operating systems on the system. At least, Windows boots and is included in the grub menu.

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

Mousepad starts up for no explicable reason as well.

I'm concluding that F15 just plainly sucks.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

The software manager is absolute garbage as well. Try searching 'text editor.' Or anything, really.

Synaptic is miles better.

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by pedora

The software manager is absolute garbage as well. Try searching 'text editor.'

OK, I'll try it:

yum search "text editor"
=========================== N/S Matched: text editor ===========================
TeXmacs.x86_64 : Structured WYSIWYG scientific text editor
cwrite.x86_64 : A new text editor for the console
efte.x86_64 : A lightweight, extendable, folding text editor for X11
emacs.x86_64 : GNU Emacs text editor
emacs-nox.x86_64 : GNU Emacs text editor without X support
gedit.i686 : Text editor for the GNOME desktop
gedit.x86_64 : Text editor for the GNOME desktop
gedit-devel.i686 : Support for developing plugins for the gedit text editor
gedit-devel.x86_64 : Support for developing plugins for the gedit text editor
joe.x86_64 : An easy to use, modeless text editor
klatexformula-ktexteditor-plugin.x86_64 : KLatexFormula integration into KDE4's
                                        : text editor
leafpad.x86_64 : GTK+ based simple text editor
marave.noarch : A Simple text editor
moe.x86_64 : A powerful clean text editor
mousepad.x86_64 : Mousepad - A simple text editor for Xfce
nano.x86_64 : A small text editor
nedit.x86_64 : A GUI text editor for systems with X
nefte.x86_64 : A lightweight, extendable, folding text editor
perl-Syntax-Highlight-Engine-Kate.noarch : Port to Perl of the syntax highlight
                                         : engine of the Kate text editor
pyroom.noarch : PyRoom is a full screen text editor and a clone of Writeroom
scite.x86_64 : SCIntilla based GTK2 text editor
scribes.noarch : A sleek, simple, and powerful text editor for the GNOME desktop
scribes-templates.noarch : Templates ("Snippets") for the Scribes text editor
sed.x86_64 : A GNU stream text editor

  Name and summary matches only, use "search all" for everything.

Looks like pretty good search results to me. What were you expecting to see? And if you want a GUI package manager like synaptic, try yumex.

[stoat]

Originally Posted by pedora

It messed up my dual-boot...

How sure are you of that? And there was this from one of your other posts yesterday...

Originally Posted by pedora in another thread

Fedora is crap with XFCE, too.

I get messages that something is wrong with the Internet and my grub got borked.

IMO, the Fedora boot loader and the boot loader options page in Anaconda did not noticeably change in Fedora 15 from what has been for many Fedora versions.

Originally Posted by pedora in another thread

When I boot, there is no grub screen. It starts Fedora immediately.

Originally Posted by pedora in another thread

Fedora 'doesn't detect' my other partition which has Debian installed on it.

Originally Posted by pedora in another thread

At least, Windows boots and is included in the grub menu.

It seems clear (to me, anyway) that you allowed the default Anaconda boot loader option which installed Fedora's GRUB in the master boot record and replaced your Debian system's boot loader there. Situation normal and common. I am unmotivated to defend Fedora 15. But your troubles and frustration yesterday, I think, have caused you to concoct a faulty conclusion and blame the wrong causative agent regarding the GRUB issue. To me, that's almost as bad as not getting it fixed, and it certainly doesn't help anybody else reading this stuff of yours.

For future readers...

Any time you install a new Linux system and don't want its boot loader to disrupt the existing boot loader arrangement, you should watch for and choose the option that installs the new system's boot loader in the first sector of its own boot partition (or root partition if there will be no separate boot partition). Finish installing the new system and reboot into the old system that is "hosting" the old existing boot loader to configure it to boot the new system. If the old existing boot loader is GRUB 2, then it's usually as simple as running the update-grub command in a terminal in its system. If the old existing boot loader is Legacy GRUB, then manually edit its menu.lst or grub.conf file. If the old existing boot loader is NTLoader (W2K, XP), then download and learn BOOTPART. If the old existing boot loader is bootmgr (Vista, W7), then download and learn EasyBCD. Sometimes, when the old existing boot loader is a Windows boot loader, the active partition needs to be reset also. How to do all of that stuff is widely and thoroughly documented.

[smr54]

As you mention synaptic, I assume when you say package manager, you mean the graphic one. It doesn't seem that popular on these forums (I don't use it, so have no personal experience)

One thing a friend of mine at Canonical said, that made a big impression on me, was, "Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad." Try to keep in mind that developers probably don't say, Mwahaha, let's mess everyone up.

It's difficult keeping calm when nothing is working properly, but usually, when you break it down into pieces, most issues can be solved.

It's also quite possible that Fedora simply isn't for you. If some other distribution is working perfectly, and lets you do your work, you might be better off with it unless you feel like taking the time to solve the Fedora problems. As I'm sure you know, when you write that you got messages that something is wrong with the Internet, with no comment about what the message actually says, it's difficult for anyone to help.

[DBelton]

Originally Posted by pedora

I've had nothing but problems since trying it. It messed up my dual-boot and I get messages that are for network administrators.

I wanted a low resource DE so I tried xfce. One of the messages is xfce-related to do with internet. But, my internet is running.

I don't know why Fedora doesn't care about other Linux operating systems on the system. At least, Windows boots and is included in the grub menu.

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

Mousepad starts up for no explicable reason as well.

I'm concluding that F15 just plainly sucks.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

The software manager is absolute garbage as well. Try searching 'text editor.' Or anything, really.

Synaptic is miles better.

I have seen you referring to getting messages about the internet in XFCE in several posts, but nowhere have I seen you state what messages you were getting and asking anyone for help relating to the issue, so I must conclude that you are happy with the messages and are willing to live with it.

And you getting messages that are for network administrators is good since YOU happen to be the network administrator on your system.

If your Fedora install recognises Windows, and dual boots. Then it installed as it should have.

While I haven't seen you stating anything that supports your statement that "F15 just plainly sucks" I have seen numerous things stated that supports my theory that you don't really want help fixing your issues with F15, but just want to complain and put down a OS that plainly works for a lot of people,

BTW, searching for text editor works as it is supposed to if you know how to search for multi-word strings. That is not a Fedora issue, it is the same for just about anything I can think of, from google to windows.

So, just about all of your issues point to PEBKAC.

Originally Posted by smr54

Try to keep in mind that developers probably don't say, Mwahaha, let's mess everyone up.

Unless you happen to be referring to the Gnome developers!

[smr54]

Ok, that was my laugh for the morning. I sometimes want to say the same thing about some man page writers. However, all kidding aside, even them--they may want to push their ideas, and be intolerant of disagreement, and start blaming the user for problems, but I put that down to youth, and probably too much caffeine.

Not dealing with Gnome, though, none of that is from experience, merely what I hear (on these forums and elsewhere.)

[DBelton]

I just couldn't pass that opportunity up.

However, I do have to say that it appears that the Gnome developers have changed some for the better and are now listening more to the users than they were during the Gnome 3 alpha/beta cycles.

[pedora]

Originally Posted by stoat

How sure are you of that? And there was this from one of your other posts yesterday...IMO, the Fedora boot loader and the boot loader options page in Anaconda did not noticeably change in Fedora 15 from what has been for many Fedora versions.

It seems clear (to me, anyway) that you allowed the default Anaconda boot loader option which installed Fedora's GRUB in the master boot record and replaced your Debian system's boot loader there. Situation normal and common. I am unmotivated to defend Fedora 15. But your troubles and frustration yesterday, I think, have caused you to concoct a faulty conclusion and blame the wrong causative agent regarding the GRUB issue. To me, that's almost as bad as not getting it fixed, and it certainly doesn't help anybody else reading this stuff of yours.
.

I thought I installed grub in the root partition. Not MBR. I have installed multi-boot systems before but don't recall having that much trouble.

The message at startup is:

Could not look up internet address for thinkpad.
This will prevent Xfce from operating correctly.
It may be possible to correct the problem by adding
thinkpad to the file /etc/hosts on your system.

[Continue Anyway]   [Try Again]

Mousepad then starts. That is annoying, too.

I assume the 'internet' message is due to a bad choice for my domain name that I need to enter during the install. Still, I am not sure what I need to edit or change to get rid of that message.

I have no idea why mousepad is opening a blank session afterwards, though.

Originally Posted by smr54

As you mention synaptic, I assume when you say package manager, you mean the graphic one. It doesn't seem that popular on these forums (I don't use it, so have no personal experience)

As I'm sure you know, when you write that you got messages that something is wrong with the Internet, with no comment about what the message actually says, it's difficult for anyone to help.

I complained about gpk-application aka Gnome Package Manager(?).

I thought maybe I'm losing it so I tried another search for text editor and entered 'text editor' and then 'text + editor.' The search results were comparable. Horrible. I was getting way too many 'hits' and some had nothing to do with a text editor or anything with those words in it. The search function must be the only one on my install that doesn't work well since everyone assured me that it works and I was doing something wrong.

P.S. I shouldn't have ranted that much but I thought for sure I was careful during the install for grub. The 'internet' message is probably my fault for sure but then again, I haven't installed Fedora lately and F15 only for this one time so far. I am not sure whether I'd get the msg each time. The Gnome Package Manager, I am going to stay with 'I don't like the way the search works.' I'm not backing down on that until someone explains what I did wrong with it.

What would cause Mousepad to start each time you boot up the OS?

[David Batson]

Originally Posted by pedora

What would cause Mousepad to start each time you boot up the OS?

Probably gpointing-device-settings. Try my guide below to resolve this.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=267052

[pedora]

I also get a crash (not sure what happened as I left the computer)

I didn't grab everything as I just re-booted.

But, it had something like:

"BUG: Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address ......

and...

Something about "...syslogd...."

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 AM ----------

So, there's no comments about this bug?

That just about does it then.

Fedora 15 crashes constantly with this bug and the only recourse that I know of is to to a hard reboot. I don't want to have to do this to my machine so often.

Fedora devs aren't doing QC on their OS.... I have a standard laptop... very common.

I've read of similar reports doing a google search. Seems like no one is working on this bug.

I guess I'll look at Debian, Mint, Ubuntu or smth...

[smr54]

Well, my own experience is that QA has gotten much better in the last few years, but YMMV. Not having run into the issue, I have no idea if it's Fedora on your hardware, or the kernel(s) being used on your hardware.

If trying other distros, you find you don't have this problem, it could be that they're using a different kernel or that something in Fedora triggers it. However, if it's something that hasn't been fixed (and seems, as far as you can tell, to not have any work being done on it), it's probably something not easily reproduced. It's even possible that it's just your machine--that is, a slightly, but not horribly, bad RAM stick, and so on.

See if you have the problem on other distros. If so, then there's a very good chance it's your hardware.

When you say the bug is known but not being worked on, it's often helpful o point to a bugzilla report. I realize that when one is frustrated, one doesn't really want to do that, but apparently, at least on these forums, your experience is relatively uncommon, hence the lack of help, or at least, Me too's.

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by pedora

I guess I'll look at Debian, Mint, Ubuntu or smth...

Good luck!

[pedora]

Originally Posted by smr54

Well, my own experience is that QA has gotten much better in the last few years, but YMMV. Not having run into the issue, I have no idea if it's Fedora on your hardware, or the kernel(s) being used on your hardware.

If trying other distros, you find you don't have this problem, it could be that they're using a different kernel or that something in Fedora triggers it. However, if it's something that hasn't been fixed (and seems, as far as you can tell, to not have any work being done on it), it's probably something not easily reproduced. It's even possible that it's just your machine--that is, a slightly, but not horribly, bad RAM stick, and so on.

See if you have the problem on other distros. If so, then there's a very good chance it's your hardware.

When you say the bug is known but not being worked on, it's often helpful o point to a bugzilla report. I realize that when one is frustrated, one doesn't really want to do that, but apparently, at least on these forums, your experience is relatively uncommon, hence the lack of help, or at least, Me too's.

I'm willing to try anything.

If it's a new kernel, then I have this question for you:
I know someone who has a T30 who installed F15 w/ xfce and no kernel paging error crash to speak of. I'm just curious what is causing it on my machine. I can file a bug report if it helps but I'm not sure where or how to obtain the info since it's crashed the entire system.

I will even try Gnome or LXDE DE but Gnome gives me a message when I try the Live CD: something to the effect of not being able to use the features (since my machine is not powerful enough, I assume).

I'm open to suggestions. I just installed F15 so nothing is on it yet and I don't mind trying again. But, if I have to, I'll give a Debian-based distro a try to see if I have the same issue with a newer kernel (most of those are at 2.6.38 or 2.6.39, anyway). I usually run Testing, so it might be interesting to compare.

I wish I could have had a positive experience with Fedora. I've always liked what I saw before and the experience was very good in the past.

It is a pain trying to find a decent spin, though, with this older laptop. I'm kind of stuck with openbox, xfce, lxde environments because the main ones keep adding features that are more suitable for more powerful machines. :-(

[jpollard]

You might try running memtest, just to see if there may be a memory problem.

This will not always show up by using other distributions, as they can have a different memory footprint that alters how the problem may show up.

One thing that can happen is that kernel buffer usage will change, moving the problem from a crash, into possibly an occasional application abort.

[pedora]

Ok, I will try the memtest overnight. I assume I have to let it run awhile?

In the meantime, do you know where I can obtain the logs?