After FC15 kerel update GRUB not loading OS

richjoh · #1 27th August 2011, 06:10 AM

Anyway to fix this without reinstall entire FC15 again. I have Nvidia 6200 video card that was running kmod accelerator. I tried reinstalling grub and no change so far.

bluewanders · #2 27th August 2011, 08:22 AM

Hi...

A google search brought up this page...
http://expertscolumn.com/content/rec...fedora-live-cd

Dead1nside · #3 27th August 2011, 03:17 PM

Think I'm experiencing the same issue. Did a massive update after a recent F15 install and now the box fails to boot. Since the resolution is still the same as GRUB and POST, I guess it fails at GRUB. Maybe have to use the rescue mode?

stoat · #4 28th August 2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

Anyway to fix this without reinstall entire FC15 again. I have Nvidia 6200 video card that was running kmod accelerator. I tried reinstalling grub and no change so far.

It's not clear to me exactly where it's stopping, but if GRUB really does need to be re-installed, and if you tried re-installing GRUB with grub-install, then try again using the GRUB shell (or vice versa). Sometimes it makes a difference. If that also fails to help, then describe where it's stopping. If you're seeing Plymouth or kernel debug spew or init stuff, then GRUB worked and is done with its job. It's something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead1nside

Did a massive update after a recent F15 install and now the box fails to boot. Since the resolution is still the same as GRUB and POST, I guess it fails at GRUB. Maybe have to use the rescue mode?

Well, it's not unheard of for GRUB to be busted after an update. I don't exactly know why, but it happens often enough. Re-installing GRUB usually fixes that. And re-installing GRUB when it doesn't need to be re-installed is harmless if it's done correctly. Likewise in your case, describing or posting what you are seeing may help some reader recognize what is wrong.

richjoh · #5 31st August 2011, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoat

If that also fails to help, then describe where it's stopping. If you're seeing Plymouth or kernel debug spew or init stuff, then GRUB worked and is done with its job. It's something else..

Basically, when Grub should start I see nothing but a black screen then the PC restarts with memory detection and disk reading i.e. BIOS restarting. I have no information to report back but that Grub doesn't start. My kernel was updated on the last yum update.

What could cause Grub to not run after BIOS running.

stoat · #6 31st August 2011, 02:13 AM

Well, I can't think of a single reason why a new kernel would do what you described. When they cause trouble, it happens after the GRUB menu or splashscreen countdown.

Is it possible that some now forgotten change was made to the drive order or some hard-drive-related setting in BIOS? Maybe looking through the BIOS setup would reveal something. Is an external drive or pendrive or SD card connected?

richjoh · #7 6th September 2011, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoat

When they cause trouble, it happens after the GRUB menu or splashscreen countdown.

Is it possible that some now forgotten change was made to the drive order or some hard-drive-related setting in BIOS? Maybe looking through the BIOS setup would reveal something. Is an external drive or pendrive or SD card connected?

BIOS is just fine, I boot perfecting into Windows (separate drive, dual boot PC). This all happen after yum update FC15 and reboot. Looks like there is a similiar post above.

You don't see nothing, only BIOS detecting drives then back to memory detection like an endless loop. The GRUB splash screen never appears. I can boot using install CD but see that GRUB is already installed even reinstall and no change. Pendrive SD cards etc are not the issue. Here we go with another reinstall from scratch to fix it.

richjoh · #8 17th September 2011, 08:08 PM

I was able to get Grub to run after reinstalling FC15 and setting the boot loader install on the MBR and not the 1st sector of the disk (like I've always done). Just reinstalling Grub did nothing, reinstalling FC15 with the boot loader on the 1 sector failed to start Grub like I mentioned above in the start of the thread.

At the same time I also install from the DVD and did not check the i386 updates repository. Now that I updated the kernel to the latest, 2.6.40.4-5.fc15.i686.PAE, to date, Grub still boots OK from the MBR.

Lastly, I found enough posting to consider this a problem with Linux distros and all fixed the problem by installing grub to the MBR. My install of Grub to the 1 sector of the disk work fine up until this last kernel update.

stoat · #9 18th September 2011, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

I was able to get Grub to run after reinstalling FC15 and setting the boot loader install on the MBR and not the 1st sector of the disk (like I've always done). Just reinstalling Grub did nothing, reinstalling FC15 with the boot loader on the 1 sector failed to start Grub like I mentioned above in the start of the thread.

At the same time I also install from the DVD and did not check the i386 updates repository. Now that I updated the kernel to the latest, 2.6.40.4-5.fc15.i686.PAE, to date, Grub still boots OK from the MBR.

Very well.

But nowhere in this thread before post #8 did you mention that you had been installing GRUB in the "1st sector of the disk" instead of the MBR. That tiny inaccurate detail might have helped unravel this because the first sector of a hard drive is the MBR. And it kinda suggests that you may have chosen the Anaconda boot loader option that installed GRUB in the first sector of the Fedora boot partition. In that scenario, some other boot loader has to boot directly from BIOS in order to boot Fedora, but you never mentioned that either. So if you clicked the "Change device" button during the installation of Fedora and selected "First sector of boot partition" and did not configure another boot loader to launch GRUB, then the problem you described above is exactly what happens.

Another pure guess, since you left out important details and descriptions, is maybe you chose to install GRUB in the MBR of a separate hard with Fedora on it and selected what to boot by changing the drive order or the boot device in BIOS (some people use that method). In that case, maybe the update simply broke GRUB (a common thing, as I said). Then perhaps you simply botched the re-install of GRUB (another common thing). That might cause you to think "Just reinstalling Grub did nothing".

Anyway, there has to be some explanation for this puzzle. And if it had been discovered, it would have made sense. It always does. The Legacy GRUB of Fedora 15 is an ancient application and its behavior is well-known.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

Lastly, I found enough posting to consider this a problem with Linux distros and all fixed the problem by installing grub to the MBR. My install of Grub to the 1 sector of the disk work fine up until this last kernel update.

IMO, that paragraph is inaccurate. I use a third party boot loader as my main boot loader (in the MBR) that I don't want disturbed, so I routinely install GRUB in the first sector of partitions. I did that for Fedora 15. No problems. And I also have done it for Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Slackware, etc. So your issue is not a widespread Linux issue either IMO. Anyway, as I said already, it's not unheard of for GRUB to be busted after an update, but it's easy to fix by re-installing GRUB (use grub-install if the GRUB shell fails to fix it, and vice versa). I just can't see why a kernel update should make any difference in that well-known issue.

I don't know what went on here, but I do think you made an error and arrived at a wrong conclusion from the assorted facts and observations. To me, that's almost as bad not getting it fixed.

richjoh · #10 18th September 2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead1nside

Think I'm experiencing the same issue. Did a massive update after a recent F15 install and now the box fails to boot. Since the resolution is still the same as GRUB and POST, I guess it fails at GRUB. Maybe have to use the rescue mode?

and Dead1inside issue is??? Yes I too normally install Grub in the 1 sector of a partition (already mentioned above) and no problem till an kernel update. I believe Dead1inside states this too, i.e. problem after massive update with Grub. Let hear where he installed his Grub?

Now question is how has Dead1inside fixed his problem? It appears to be similar issue.

stoat · #11 18th September 2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

and Dead1inside issue is???

I already took a shot at answering that (with virtually nothing to go on, BTW). I said it is not unheard of for GRUB to be busted by an update and re-installing the GRUB boot loader fixes it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

Yes I too normally install Grub in the 1 sector of a partition (already mentioned above) and no problem till an kernel update.

Then how was it being booted before the update? That's another detail you've omitted, and I'd like to hear the explanation of that. With GRUB in the first sector of a partition, it will not boot directly from BIOS. Something in the MBR (say, another boot loader) has to boot directly from BIOS and then Fedora's GRUB and/or kernel is booted from its menu. But you never mentioned any of that. It's also possible for MS bootstrapping code or syslinux in a master boot record to boot GRUB in the first sector of the boot partition if the partition is marked active, but you didn't mention that either. So now would be a good time to clear that up for the record. What booted Fedora before the update when GRUB was installed in the first sector of the Fedora boot partition? Maybe that is what got busted. Besides, that's more likely to cause an immediate reboot after the BIOS screen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

Now question is how has Dead1inside fixed his problem? It appears to be similar issue.

Yes, it's always interesting to sort these things out, but he never returned. Anyway, the only thing positively similar between you two is the fact that GRUB is involved. Dead1inside sort of described seeing GRUB start and then halt (a common thing), but you described a repetitive reboot immediately following the BIOS startup screen. What's so similar other than you both use GRUB and just updated? We all use GRUB and update.

richjoh · #12 19th September 2011, 05:09 AM

I append this to end of /boot/grub.conf to use a two seperate HD, 1 for FC and other for Winbows.

title Winbows XP
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
boot

Grub booting up has always work OK till some update of FC15.

stoat · #13 19th September 2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

I append this to end of /boot/grub.conf to use a two seperate HD, 1 for FC and other for Winbows.

title Winbows XP
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
boot

Grub booting up has always work OK till some update of FC15.

Okay, that's fine. But as I suspected from the beginning, that means GRUB always has been installed in the master boot record of the first drive in BIOS, and that is the drive with Fedora. Windows is on the second drive, and you are using map commands to virtually swap the Windows drive to first in order for XP to boot. BIOS runs GRUB stage1 in the MBR of the first hard drive, eventually the GRUB menu appears, and you choose Fedora or XP. Very common.

But this also confirms that you have been erroneously considering the "MBR" and the "1st sector of the disk" as being two different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

I was able to get Grub to run after reinstalling FC15 and setting the boot loader install on the MBR and not the 1st sector of the disk (like I've always done).

And if at any point, you installed or re-installed GRUB in the first sector of the Fedora boot partition (which is an actual choice in Anaconda), then your boot loader arrangement that you just described would be busted.

So to me, you have fixed your boot loader (congratulations) back to the way it has always been even from before the infamous update of the kernel without understanding anything about it. Updates are well-known to bust GRUB occasionally (as I have said multiple times so far). But it's also easy to repair (as you managed to do). The kernel has been a red herring in this matter. So has been your understanding of GRUB, master boot records, and disk sectors. Nothing has changed. Order and discipline in the universe is preserved.

richjoh · #14 19th September 2011, 02:30 PM

I setup my pc using the Anaconda installer that installs Grub. And yes either you put it on the MBR hd0 or on only other option is on hd01 (call it whatever, it comes after the MBR). These small details on correct nomenclature is besides the point.

It working now

stoat · #15 19th September 2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

These small details on correct nomenclature is besides the point.

Maybe to you, but not to me. Your inaccurate use of terms is at the heart of this matter IMO. Besides, words (and sometimes images) are all we have in an Internet forum. They need to be accurate to convey meaning accurately. If the words are crap, how can anyone but the psychics among us know what you meant? And most importantly, other people are going to read this stuff here for a long time to come. And then you said this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

Lastly, I found enough posting to consider this a problem with Linux distros and all fixed the problem by installing grub to the MBR. My install of Grub to the 1 sector of the disk work fine up until this last kernel update.

I didn't want other readers to accept that (and what you wanted it to imply) as the truth or established fact. Because it is not. As happy as I am that your boot loader is fixed, I care more about the accuracy of the record here. That is really the only reason that I persisted here for so long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richjoh

It working now

Well good.